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Update Working Group[edit]

Have no intention to join this group. Looks like I want to make some changes that might be related what they are working on. While trying to support someone on the forum discovered that there is no information on migrating to J3 to be found on the administrator portal. Consider that wrong and would like to change that. Sovainfo (talk) 19:07, 6 October 2014 (CDT)

Feel free to improve whatever you think needs improving. Would be appreciated and there is no need to join the working group. Tom Hutchison (talk) 08:39, 11 October 2014 (CDT)

wiki edits:[edit]

  • Trying to find my own tag to use it in other discussions. Maybe there is a way to include it, i don't know. Found it, it is mentioned below in the edit window! Enter in the edit screen 4x~.
  • To propose article for deletion add {{delete|reason}} at the top. reason should say why it needs to be removed. This will place it in the category candidates for deletion. Make sure it is not being referred to by other pages.

Open questions[edit]

  • How to move without reference.
When you press move uncheck the box that says "Leave a redirect behind"
Tried that, but it left a reference anyway. Did notice that others are moving without it. So it must be possible. Reluctant to move anything now, because of it. Will try again to verify, thanks. Sovainfo (talk) 08:15, 19 September 2013 (CDT)
Generally you should always leave a redirect because outside links could be to the page being moved. On rare occasions there could be a page that has no incoming links to it within the wiki and those are usually ones we leave the redirect out. Tom Hutchison (talk) 13:42, 19 September 2013 (CDT)
  • How to find out what pages are using the page.
While on the page you want to find what links to it, click the gear in the top right hand corner drop-down menu. What links here, click that and it'll give you a list of what links to it and how. Tom Hutchison (talk) 13:49, 19 September 2013 (CDT)
Found it, thanks. Sovainfo (talk) 14:57, 19 September 2013 (CDT)

Automation of Help Screen pages[edit]

Hi Sovainfo, I saw you have been working on the Help32 help screens. Mark Dexter did some work on automation of the screens from Selenium Tests. I think anything and everything he could grab he did and then I uploaded them to the Chunk30 namespace. You can find the list of all the Chunks here, User:Tom Hutchison/Finding pages with DPL. These included screenshots and the actual Field Data(which is what the chunks are). Then he integrated the screenshots into the chunks. All the UX changes really forced us to look at this method. A few hundred screenshots, ugh!

I've done about 25 of them and the good part will be, once integrated they can be updated in a matter of hours. Mostly waiting for the test loops to finish. Anyway, from changing the first 25 or so on the master list, I realized we needed to swap around How to Access with Description. It was a little backwards anyway. What is it, here is how you get to it. It is more for the wiki browsers anyway, not the admin accessed views.

Let me know what you think. The most painful part will be getting all the chunks into the Help screens, matching them to the actual File name or chunk name. We tried to create a descriptive naming pattern. There are just so many of them it will take time. Once they are integrated, everything can be changed quickly. I think it took a total of 4 mins to upload everything. 3 for the files and 1 minute for all the chunk pages. Tom Hutchison (talk) 19:35, 6 December 2013 (CST)

Thank you for this information. Not sure whether I understand the impact completely. Stopped changing ( only 3 more to go). Will have a look before I continue. Sounds like you are telling me I am wasting my time. Here is what I was trying to do:
A post on the forum about the article category triggered me to focus on the Module Manager help. My objective is to have it consistent for all modules. Noticed missing description of Advanced settings, Menu assignment and Permissions. Created chunks for those. Later on found out that also How to access was not consistently applied. Decided to change that first for all modules (3 to go). Next step would have been to go through all of them again to change advanced, menu assignment and permissions plus moving toolbar down. Not happy with the format as it is now, but don't worry, won't change it without discussion.
Would love to see this automated, but wonder whether it is and when this could be expected. Looking forward to answer on that. Sovainfo (talk) 20:23, 6 December 2013 (CST)
Nothing is a waste. The UX team really killed the modules, everything is moved around and changed. Definitely standardize the How to Access part. While you are there, just flip the location between Description and How To...move it down as a next section or move the description part up. I need to change that in the how to build a help screen page. I think the one thing is the Advanced Tab is going to be the same for all modules, that could be chunked and used on all of them. Actually, I think it is all three, Advanced settings, Menu assignment and Permissions. But again they are all the same so one chunk should cover them all. Did you look at any of the user pages? I'll try and get one of the module ones done as a sample.
Everything is there, it just needs integration. Once that happens, no more screenshots. At least from first count, 95% of all screenshots will be automated and a huge chunk of the help screen content too. Tom Hutchison (talk) 20:34, 6 December 2013 (CST)
Removing the header breaks the layout for all Module Manager help. Already created chunks for Menu Assignment and Permissions, they are always next to eachother. Advanced is the last tab, not always after Permissions, which is why it is separate. Do think the tabs should be in order of appearance. Advanced needs to be updated, somewhere there is a better description than that I initially created. Sovainfo (talk) 21:24, 6 December 2013 (CST)
I know it did, sorry, but it is a great job on the use of templating!!! Yeah, someone else gets it.
The problem, a stupid problem because of DPL(Dynamic Page List) is there is no way to ignore a Heading Call. What I mean by that, if I tell DPL to pull in all content under 'Description' it will grab everything under 'Description' heading to the next page heading, this includes all template information. You can't even use the <noinclude> tags. I could go into why, but it would take a few more paragraphs. Anyway, we need the hard stops in there.
Next, when Mark laid out the wiki text with the data, he added the screenshot heading. In retrospect, we probably shouldn't have done it that way, but logically it made sense because it was also sectioning off all the tabs if there were more to section off.
Unfortunately, I had to down grade the headings from = to == again because of the automated content and how it was laid out.
Bright side, between your new how to access template and the automation, all a module needs to build the page is
A description...
==How to Access==
{{Chunk30:ModuleManager-How-to-acces-module|module=<name of Module>}}
                              \<name of module>/

===Common Details===
{{Chunk30:Module Details}}

===Common Tabs===

etc... the rest below
As for in order, Common is common to all. I know what you mean by the common details is moved down. Mark, George, myself just figured they are all common to every module and required. Perhaps a better name for Common Details? Tom Hutchison (talk) 22:01, 6 December 2013 (CST)
Oh, I guess I should explain why the DPL call is important to "Description" too. There are several uses of DPL to grab a link to a Help Screen, with a Description of what the help screen does in tables through out docs. Mainly on the Admin Doc pages, but the related help screen template uses it too. Without the hard stop a description put in a table would include the description and the screenshot and all the information in the chunk for the screenshot. These can get pretty lengthy. Some of the automated chunks contain lots of information. Tom Hutchison (talk) 22:21, 6 December 2013 (CST)
So, if there was a way to get the description from somewhere the whole page could be generated. Maybe placing it in a chunk together with getting the content from the source. Sovainfo (talk) 06:05, 7 December 2013 (CST)
Yes, the whole of anything under Description including all template and/or chunks up until the pages next real section. DPL used the logic of labeled section inclusion extension, which never had the noinclude tags. If we placed it in a chunk, then you would have to change the description parameter being looked for on all the pages using the labeled section calls. Which is an alternative to what is being done now. In the scheme of things, it prob is best to have the "what it is" first then how to get to it. In admin view calling help screens, it prob is a bit more logical that way too. What is this, click help, first paragraphs tell the story. The how to access only really exist for wiki(docs) readers. A help screen user will already be on the page. Tom Hutchison (talk) 07:30, 9 December 2013 (CST)